Blackjack Is edge-sorting cheating or strategy?

[Sevens]

For the non-cardplayers, edge sorting is where a player recognises individual cards from tiny printing differences on the card backs. Some casinos have stopped playing out winnings to players they suspect of edge-sorting claiming it is cheating, not strategy. Phil Ivey lost his £14M winnings at a London casino because of it.

So is this cheating or strategy? I'd say it is closer to cheating, since it relies on something unique to the casino, not the game, but what do you think?

 

[steve]

The part that made it illegal cheating is the deception to have the dealer turn the card. If it wasn't for that it would be legal advantage play.

 

[steve]

Believe me I'm an expert in the definition of illegal cheating in casinos. I have legal advice from lawyers all over the world with regards to roulette computer application. The law applies to any game.

 

[kenzow]

I guess this is one discussion that will never achieve 100% consensus. I once read that a UK court ruled that this technique is cheating (in civil law) but I'd like to understand whether it becomes legal when dealing with advantage gambling?

 

[Hartz]

I agree with you Kenzow. A lot of people are going to have vastly differing opinions about this. All I know is that if I had that kind of skill, I'd probably make a killing.

 

[Koontz]

Losing all that money! Man, I would have been so mad. I wonder how he took it. I suppose if Phil Ivey was doing something that he knew was against the rules then he's got no one to kick but himself.

 

[Tredger]

I think that anything that requires that level of knowledge or skill has to be regarded as strategy rather than cheating. Of course as Hartz says, there are differing opinions on the matter.

 

[steve]

Against casino rules is not necessarily cheating.

 

[Sevens]

Believe me I'm an expert in the definition of illegal cheating in casinos.

I misread that initially and missed "the definition of". My eyebrows definitely raised.

I think it is partly the casino's fault for using cards that have the difference. Cards for gambling should be indistinguishable from the back. The rest of the fault is his because turning the cards seems like a basic form of card-marking, like scuffling the edge of aces with a fingernail.